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Re: maildrop feature request

Philippe Cerfon-2
Hey Sam, et all.

Have there been any news over the years on this front? I.e. the
problem on how to flag mail's as (S)een, (A)nswered, (D)eleted, etc. ?
That seems to pop up every now and then again here, there are probably
countless of blog entries where people complain about that issue :-(

It seems there has even been a patch proposed
once:http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.maildrop/4475
Any reason not to merge that or solving that somehow else?

That, plus the issue of the dovecot-authlib patches not having been
merged here and subsequently been dropped from many distros, makes
using maildrop quite difficult. And it seems to me without any
necessity :-/

Sincerely,
Phil.

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Philippe Cerfon writes:
>
>> Dear maildrop maintainer.
>>
>> I and my customers make heavy use of (standalone) maildrop for filtering.
>> On missing feature though, which we get manually by some ugly hack at
>> the moment is the ability to deliver mail (via to) and in addition set
>> a status on it immediately.
>> Most important would be to mark the mail read, but also replied (e.g.
>> in case there are automatic replies programmed)
>> Would it be possible to add something like this, e.g. via an
>> environment variable used by "to" (similar to KEYWORDS).
>
>
> I'll have to think about it.
>

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Re: maildrop feature request

Sam Varshavchik
Philippe Cerfon writes:

> Hey Sam, et all.
>
> Have there been any news over the years on this front? I.e. the
> problem on how to flag mail's as (S)een, (A)nswered, (D)eleted, etc. ?
> That seems to pop up every now and then again here, there are probably
> countless of blog entries where people complain about that issue :-(

Haven't seen that topic come up in a number of years, actually. I still  
think that this is a solution in search of a problem.

>
> It seems there has even been a patch proposed
> once:http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.maildrop/4475
> Any reason not to merge that or solving that somehow else?
>
> That, plus the issue of the dovecot-authlib patches not having been
> merged here and subsequently been dropped from many distros, makes
> using maildrop quite difficult. And it seems to me without any
> necessity :-/

I am unable to maintain any dovecot code for the simple reason that I don't  
use it, and as such I can't maintain it. Someone needs to step up and  
volunteer to take ownership the dovecot-specific bits.

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Re: maildrop feature request

Sam Varshavchik
Philippe Cerfon writes:

> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
> >> Have there been any news over the years on this front? I.e. the
> >> problem on how to flag mail's as (S)een, (A)nswered, (D)eleted, etc. ?
> >> That seems to pop up every now and then again here, there are probably
> >> countless of blog entries where people complain about that issue :-(
> > Haven't seen that topic come up in a number of years, actually. I still
> > think that this is a solution in search of a problem.
> There's for example, "[maildropl] Marking a message read when
> delivering to a Maildir" right here on the list, from e.g. 2014
>
> And as I've said, countless of blog posts, etc. which deal with that issue.
>
> Also I don't know how you come to idea that this should be the search
> of a problem.
> Setting these flags seem to be one of the most basic featurs,
> supported by sieve, or any MUA's internal filtersystem.
> And it makes perfectly countless of use cases:
> - e.g. automatically (f)lagging messages, based on e.g. From
> - when maildrop is e.g. used to automatically reply to certain mails
> (via passing them on to some scripts or so), may be desired to have
> them marked (A)nswered
> - when having high volume mailing lists subscribed, one may want to
> mark most messages (S)een since one isn't interested in them, except
> those which are e.g. directly To:ed to one self, or which include
> certain keywords, etc. pp
Why would delivering messages to the appopriate folder, instead, be a  
problem?

Simply delivering the messages to the appropriate folder seems to be a more  
useful disposition.

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Re: maildrop feature request

miro
On 151214-20:20-0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

> Philippe Cerfon writes:
>
> >- when having high volume mailing lists subscribed, one may want to
> >mark most messages (S)een since one isn't interested in them, except
> >those which are e.g. directly To:ed to one self, or which include
> >certain keywords, etc. pp
>
> Why would delivering messages to the appopriate folder, instead, be a
> problem?
>
> Simply delivering the messages to the appropriate folder seems to be a more
> useful disposition.
Absolutely so! Works perfectly here!

One of the programs that I'm really happy with is the Maildrop, and I
recommend it to newbies when the talk is about mail. I had tried various
guis (Thunderbird, Claws, Kmail), but would never want to go back again
away from:

Getmail, Maildrop, Mutt, and Postfix (for sending mail only, I'm still
on a provider's/hoster's mail hub). A perfect solution, to me!

( BTW, I'm on a grsecurity-hardened Gentoo, with iptables properly
configured, which, along with the above, is just great for unpropitious,
censorship/other-intrusion prone regimatic kind of online environment. )

( But I understand devs on a distro like Ubuntu may have a need to get
something more gui-like for less advanced newbies there... )

( BTQ, I had (luckily, read on), misreported a bug:

http://sourceforge.net/p/courier/mailman/courier-maildrop/?viewmonth=201508
and:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1027610.html

Luckily ;-) because our devs very soon afterwards updated Maildrop in
Gentoo's portage! )

Regards!
--
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr

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Re: maildrop feature request

Sam Varshavchik
In reply to this post by Sam Varshavchik
Philippe Cerfon writes:

> Don't understand what you mean.
>
> E.g. (F)lagging a message may simply be desired, regardless of which folder.
> Denoting that an answer has already been written, as e.g. in the
> example above, cannot be done by moving mail to specific folder. It's
> simply what the A flag is for.
> And as for the last example, even when you move it to some folder, the
> mail would still show up as unseen in the user's MUA, which is just
> what's not desired in the above example.

If your maildrop recipe chooses to handle a particular message, in some  
way – say send an autoreply, or set it aside for some special handling –  
all that needs to happen is to deliver the message to the appropriate  
folder; say a folder called "Replied", or "To Do".

And now, instead of having one flat Inbox, that you have to search for, to  
find all of your flagged or replied messages, all of them are easily found  
in a separate folder. They'll certainly be seen as unread in their dedicated  
folder, but so what? If you want to find all of the autoreplied messages,  
you open the "Replied" folder, and there they are. If you want to find all  
of the flagged messages, you open the "To Do" folder. Mission accomplished.


>
> Cheers,
> Philippe
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:20 AM, Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
> > Philippe Cerfon writes:
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Have there been any news over the years on this front? I.e. the
> >> >> problem on how to flag mail's as (S)een, (A)nswered, (D)eleted, etc. ?
> >> >> That seems to pop up every now and then again here, there are probably
> >> >> countless of blog entries where people complain about that issue :-(
> >> > Haven't seen that topic come up in a number of years, actually. I still
> >> > think that this is a solution in search of a problem.
> >> There's for example, "[maildropl] Marking a message read when
> >> delivering to a Maildir" right here on the list, from e.g. 2014
> >>
> >> And as I've said, countless of blog posts, etc. which deal with that
> >> issue.
> >>
> >> Also I don't know how you come to idea that this should be the search
> >> of a problem.
> >> Setting these flags seem to be one of the most basic featurs,
> >> supported by sieve, or any MUA's internal filtersystem.
> >> And it makes perfectly countless of use cases:
> >> - e.g. automatically (f)lagging messages, based on e.g. From
> >> - when maildrop is e.g. used to automatically reply to certain mails
> >> (via passing them on to some scripts or so), may be desired to have
> >> them marked (A)nswered
> >> - when having high volume mailing lists subscribed, one may want to
> >> mark most messages (S)een since one isn't interested in them, except
> >> those which are e.g. directly To:ed to one self, or which include
> >> certain keywords, etc. pp
> >
> >
> > Why would delivering messages to the appopriate folder, instead, be a
> > problem?
> >
> > Simply delivering the messages to the appropriate folder seems to be a more
> > useful disposition.
> >
> >  
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> >
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> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-maildrop
> >

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Re: maildrop feature request

Dimitri Maziuk
On 12/17/2015 06:05 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

> Philippe Cerfon writes:
>
>> Don't understand what you mean.
>>
>> E.g. (F)lagging a message may simply be desired, regardless of which
>> folder.
>> Denoting that an answer has already been written, as e.g. in the
>> example above, cannot be done by moving mail to specific folder. It's
>> simply what the A flag is for.
>> And as for the last example, even when you move it to some folder, the
>> mail would still show up as unseen in the user's MUA, which is just
>> what's not desired in the above example.
What I don't understand is, is there some RFC I'm unaware of that
defines some X-Seen and X-Answered and X-Whatever headers? Or this at
the level of "my MUApp du jour colours this kind of message yellow and I
want maildrop to do server-side magic so these messages come up this way
from the wire"? Presumably in yellow electrons?

--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu


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Re: maildrop feature request

Sam Varshavchik
Dimitri Maziuk writes:

> What I don't understand is, is there some RFC I'm unaware of that
> defines some X-Seen and X-Answered and X-Whatever headers? Or this at
> the level of "my MUApp du jour colours this kind of message yellow and I
> want maildrop to do server-side magic so these messages come up this way
> from the wire"? Presumably in yellow electrons?

No there isn't. IMAP defines several standard status flags, for each message  
in a mailbox, like "Seen" and "Replied". That's what mail clients use.


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Re: maildrop feature request

Dimitri Maziuk
On 12/17/2015 05:26 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

> Dimitri Maziuk writes:
>
>> What I don't understand is, is there some RFC I'm unaware of that
>> defines some X-Seen and X-Answered and X-Whatever headers? Or this at
>> the level of "my MUApp du jour colours this kind of message yellow and I
>> want maildrop to do server-side magic so these messages come up this way
>> from the wire"? Presumably in yellow electrons?
>
> No there isn't. IMAP defines several standard status flags, for each
> message in a mailbox, like "Seen" and "Replied". That's what mail
> clients use.
Ah, thanks. I was thinking of a wrong RFC then.

--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu


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Re: maildrop feature request

Dimitri Maziuk
In reply to this post by Dimitri Maziuk
On 12/17/2015 06:36 PM, Philippe Cerfon wrote:
> ... basically every
> server that speaks maildir supprts it as described here
> http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html

A quick ls of my cur shows very few messages with :2,S yet they're all
"seen" in the thunderbird. So yeah, basically every server. Except the
dovecot shipped with rh 6.

--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu


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Re: maildrop feature request

Philippe Cerfon-2
In reply to this post by Dimitri Maziuk
Hey.

I should perhaps notice that I withdraw that feature request - at
least from my side. :-)

While I still can't quite understand why a small patch isn't merged if
it helps many people, after more than 5 years of waiting for this (and
others have even requested it much earlier) one probably needs to
conclude that maildrop isn't going developed further in respect of
functionalities and people are apparently encouraged moving on to
Sieve, which I've done now.

Cheers and best wishes,
Philippe.

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