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Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Lucio Crusca-2
Hello,

I'm still configuring the new server. The 456 error is resolved, thanks,
but now I have a new problem.

Looking at log files, it seems local delivery is ok. Here is an example
of my logs for a test message from GMail to [hidden email]:

May 14 01:05:57 maxwell courieresmtpd: started,ip=[::ffff:10.7.33.100]
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courierd:
newmsg,id=000000000060075F.0000000059179156.00007FBD: dns;
mail-pf0-f175.google.com ([::ffff:10.7.33.100])
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courieresmtpd: The TLS connection was
non-properly terminated.
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courierd:
started,id=000000000060075F.0000000059179156.00007FBD,from=<[hidden email]>,module=local,host=[hidden email]!!5000!5000!/home/mail/usosalix.com/info!!,addr=<[hidden email]>
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courierd: Waiting.  shutdown time=none, wakeup
time=none, queuedelivering=1, inprogress=1
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell spamd[10205]: spamd: connection from localhost
[::1]:54448 to port 783, fd 5
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell spamd[10205]: spamd: setuid to mailboxes succeeded
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell spamd[10205]: spamd: processing message
<[hidden email]> for
mailboxes:5000
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell spamd[10205]: spamd: clean message (0.3/5.0) for
mailboxes:5000 in 0.1 seconds, 2651 bytes.
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell spamd[10205]: spamd: result: . 0 -
ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,T_DKIM_INVALID
scantime=0.1,size=2651,user=mailboxes,uid=5000,required_score=5.0,rhost=localhost,raddr=::1,rport=54448,mid=<[hidden email]>,autolearn=no
autolearn_force=no
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell spamd[10204]: prefork: child states: II
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courierlocal:
id=000000000060075F.0000000059179156.00007FBD,from=<[hidden email]>,addr=<[hidden email]>,size=2651,success:
Message delivered.
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courierd:
completed,id=000000000060075F.0000000059179156.00007FBD
May 14 01:05:59 maxwell courierd: Waiting.  shutdown time=Sun May 14
01:36:27 2017, wakeup time=Sun May 14 01:36:27 2017, queuedelivering=0,
inprogress=0

here is the userdb entry for [hidden email]:

[hidden email]
home=/home/mail/usosalix.com/info|uid=5000|gid=5000|systempw=???

and here are the contents of the Maildir after the logs above:

# cd /home/mail/usosalix.com/info
# ls -laR
.:
total 16
drwxr-sr-x 3 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwxr-sr-x 3 root      mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 mailboxes mailboxes   16 May 14 01:05 .courier-sent
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 Maildir

./Maildir:
total 32
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwxr-sr-x 3 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 cur
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .Drafts
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 new
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .Sent
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 tmp
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .Trash

./Maildir/cur:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Drafts:
total 20
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 cur
-rw------- 1 mailboxes mailboxes    0 May 14 01:05 maildirfolder
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 new
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 tmp

./Maildir/.Drafts/cur:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Drafts/new:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Drafts/tmp:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/new:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Sent:
total 20
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 cur
-rw------- 1 mailboxes mailboxes    0 May 14 01:05 maildirfolder
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 new
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 tmp

./Maildir/.Sent/cur:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Sent/new:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Sent/tmp:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/tmp:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Trash:
total 20
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 8 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 cur
-rw------- 1 mailboxes mailboxes    0 May 14 01:05 maildirfolder
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 new
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 tmp

./Maildir/.Trash/cur:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Trash/new:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..

./Maildir/.Trash/tmp:
total 8
drwx------ 2 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 .
drwx------ 5 mailboxes mailboxes 4096 May 14 01:05 ..


E.g. no files written into the Maildir, despite the "Message delivered"
log. I've also tried to access the Maildir with Thunderbird and
RoundCube and they both confirm there aren't any messages.

I have no clue about what I should check... please help.

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Sam Varshavchik
Lucio Crusca writes:

>
> E.g. no files written into the Maildir, despite the "Message delivered"
> log. I've also tried to access the Maildir with Thunderbird and
> RoundCube and they both confirm there aren't any messages.
>
> I have no clue about what I should check... please help.

>From the logs, you've configured spamd to be responsible for delivering  
mail, so you'll have to look in that direction.

You can start by completely removing spamd from your configuration, so that  
it's out of the picture, and with Courier delivering mail directly to the  
mailbox, confirming that mail delivery works. Once that's settled, you can  
then bring spamd back into the picture, and work on it.

When trying to do too many things at once, if something is broken somewhere  
it is often not clear where exactly the issue is. You have to take smaller  
steps, and get one thing working, at a time.


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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Lucio Crusca-2
Sam Varshavchik writes:
> From the logs, you've configured spamd to be responsible for delivering
> mail
 >
 > You have to take smaller steps, and get one thing working, at a time.

I've now moved spamd out of the way. My previous DEFAULTDELIVERY was

DEFAULTDELIVERY="|/usr/bin/spamc|/usr/bin/maildrop"

The current one is:

DEFAULTDELIVERY=./Maildir

and everyting works. However if I try to use maildrop alone, with:

DEFAULTDELIVERY="| /usr/bin/maildrop"

it stops working again, so I think I have a problem with maildrop rather
than spamd.

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Sam Varshavchik
Lucio Crusca writes:

> Sam Varshavchik writes:
> > From the logs, you've configured spamd to be responsible for delivering
> > mail
>  >
>  > You have to take smaller steps, and get one thing working, at a time.
>
> I've now moved spamd out of the way. My previous DEFAULTDELIVERY was
>
> DEFAULTDELIVERY="|/usr/bin/spamc|/usr/bin/maildrop"
>
> The current one is:
>
> DEFAULTDELIVERY=./Maildir
>
> and everyting works. However if I try to use maildrop alone, with:
>
> DEFAULTDELIVERY="| /usr/bin/maildrop"
>
> it stops working again, so I think I have a problem with maildrop rather
> than spamd.
Then, look in the .mailfilter file to see what the delivery instructions are.

maildrop also has a verbose flag, that causes it to generate its own logging.



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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Markus Wanner
In reply to this post by Lucio Crusca-2
On 14.05.2017 20:16, Lucio Crusca wrote:
> However if I try to use maildrop alone, with:
>
> DEFAULTDELIVERY="| /usr/bin/maildrop"
>
> it stops working again, so I think I have a problem with maildrop rather
> than spamd.

Is this the Debian stretch installation mentioned?

You might have run into an issue caused by the recent removal of the
courier-maildrop package, see this issue:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818377

It boils down to maildrop being compiled without HAVE_COURIER, where as
the courier MTA (unsurprisingly) expects that #define to be set.

I'm successfully running a courier installation on Debian stretch with
maildrop compiled manually, ATM.

Kind Regards

Markus Wanner


Disclaimer: I'm a Debian Developer and recently took over maintenance of
the Courier MTA suite. However, I'm not sure we can still solve this
maildrop issue in time for the stretch release. Sorry.


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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Lucio Crusca-2
Markus Wanner writes:
> Is this the Debian stretch installation mentioned?
>

Yes it is.

> I'm successfully running a courier installation on Debian stretch with
> maildrop compiled manually, ATM.

Thanks for sharing, I'm afraid that's what I need to do too. What does
exactly mean to compile maildrop with HAVE_COURIER? I coulnd't find any
such option in ./configure and the generated Makefile does not include
it either.

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Lucio Crusca-2
I wrote:
> What does exactly mean to compile maildrop with HAVE_COURIER? I coulnd't find any
> such option in ./configure and the generated Makefile does not include
> it either.

I've had a look at the current maildrop stable sources (2.8.5). In the
file libs/maildrop/config.h.in I see:

#undef HAVE_COURIER

at line 7. Is it enough to edit that line, make it look like

#ifndef HAVE_COURIER
   #define HAVE_COURIER
#endif

and configure/make/install?

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Lucio Crusca-2
I wrote:
> Is it enough to edit that line, make it look like

> #ifndef HAVE_COURIER
>    #define HAVE_COURIER
> #endif
>
> and configure/make/install?

I answer myself: no it isn't, because I've tried and that leads to a
compile error. Then I've also tried just commenting out the #undef,
building, installing, making it SUID root, configuring Courier to use
that maildrop as DEFAULTDELIVERY, but still the messages are not
actually being delivered into the virtual accounts maildirs, despite the
logs not reporting any problem.

Sam Varshavchik writes:
 > look in the .mailfilter file

The virtual account I'm testing with has no .mailfilter.
I've tried a few things in the default /etc/maildroprc:

DEFAULT="$HOME/Maildir" # leads to message not being delivered

DEFAULT=./Maildir # same as above

DEFAULT=./Maildir/ # maildrop: Unable to open mailbox.

# empty file # maildrop: Unable to open mailbox.

logfile "/var/log/maildrop.log" # Unable to create log file.

During all these tests Courier was using my custom setuid maildrop.


Sam Varshavchik writes:
 > maildrop also has a verbose flag, that causes it to generate its own
 > logging.

but the maildrop manpage reports:

"-V is ignored when maildrop runs in delivery mode."

and maildropfilter manpage reports the same about the VERBOSE variable.

is there any other switch to make maildrop log informations while in
delivery mode?

Please advice, I'm at a loss.

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Sam Varshavchik
Lucio Crusca writes:

> but the maildrop manpage reports:
>
> "-V is ignored when maildrop runs in delivery mode."
>
> and maildropfilter manpage reports the same about the VERBOSE variable.

Then run maildrop manually, yourself. Run maildrop with -V from the shell,  
pipe a test message on standard input, and see what it logs.

> is there any other switch to make maildrop log informations while in  
> delivery mode?
>
> Please advice, I'm at a loss.

Bottom line is that Debian's Courier package is not correctly built. If you  
can't figure out a workaround, there's no other option besides building your  
own Courier package, from source.



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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Szépe Viktor
Idézem/Quoting Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]>:

> Lucio Crusca writes:
>
>> but the maildrop manpage reports:
>>
>> "-V is ignored when maildrop runs in delivery mode."
>>
>> and maildropfilter manpage reports the same about the VERBOSE variable.
>
> Then run maildrop manually, yourself. Run maildrop with -V from the  
> shell, pipe a test message on standard input, and see what it logs.
>
>> is there any other switch to make maildrop log informations while  
>> in delivery mode?
>>
>> Please advice, I'm at a loss.
>
> Bottom line is that Debian's Courier package is not correctly built.  
> If you can't figure out a workaround, there's no other option  
> besides building your own Courier package, from source.

Hello Sam!

Could you point out some difference that you feel incorrect?
It would help much for maintaining the Debian package.


SZÉPE Viktor
https://github.com/szepeviktor/debian-server-tools/blob/master/CV.md
--
+36-20-4242498  [hidden email]  skype: szepe.viktor
Budapest, III. kerület





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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Lucio Crusca-2
In reply to this post by Lucio Crusca-2
It now works: Markus kindly sent me his patch and his custom maildrop
2.8.4 deb package, because he's currently short of time to keep up with
the conversation here.

I tried to apply his patch to maildrop 2.8.5 sources. The patch gets
applied, but configuration fails afterwards for some reason I don't
understand (syntax errors).

I finally installed the package Markus sent me.

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Sam Varshavchik
In reply to this post by Szépe Viktor
SZÉPE Viktor writes:

> Idézem/Quoting Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Lucio Crusca writes:
> >
> >> but the maildrop manpage reports:
> >>
> >> "-V is ignored when maildrop runs in delivery mode."
> >>
> >> and maildropfilter manpage reports the same about the VERBOSE variable.
> >
> > Then run maildrop manually, yourself. Run maildrop with -V from the
> > shell, pipe a test message on standard input, and see what it logs.
> >
> >> is there any other switch to make maildrop log informations while
> >> in delivery mode?
> >>
> >> Please advice, I'm at a loss.
> >
> > Bottom line is that Debian's Courier package is not correctly built.
> > If you can't figure out a workaround, there's no other option
> > besides building your own Courier package, from source.
>
> Hello Sam!
>
> Could you point out some difference that you feel incorrect?
> It would help much for maintaining the Debian package.
This has been discussed already – that package replaces the maildrop  
component with the standalone version of maildrop. This doesn't work  
correctly, or rather it won't work without some additional configuration.  
That, for all intents and purposes, is maildrop getting installed with some  
standalone mail server, and maildrop needs to be set up to use the same  
configuration as the mail server, in terms of where the mail accounts are,  
who owns them, and each one's userid and groupid. It's no longer just  
something that get me dropped in, and work automatically.


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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Markus Wanner
Hi,

On 05/16/2017 02:27 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> This has been discussed already – that package replaces the maildrop
> component with the standalone version of maildrop. This doesn't work
> correctly, or rather it won't work without some additional
> configuration.

I'd quickly like to elaborate on why the former Debian maintainer
decided to do that and hope for your understanding:

Before, there was a courier-maildrop as well as a (stand-alone) maildrop
package. Meaning those two are built from the very same source, but
built with different configuration options. From a maintenance and
security perspective, that's unfortunate and Debian strives to eliminate
duplicate source packages.

However, I certainly agree that the current situation is even worse.

> That, for all intents and purposes, is maildrop getting
> installed with some standalone mail server, and maildrop needs to be set
> up to use the same configuration as the mail server, in terms of where
> the mail accounts are, who owns them, and each one's userid and groupid.
> It's no longer just something that get me dropped in, and work
> automatically.

Couldn't most of this configuration be moved to runtime, rather than
compile time?

Kind Regards

Markus Wanner



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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Sam Varshavchik
Markus Wanner writes:

> I'd quickly like to elaborate on why the former Debian maintainer
> decided to do that and hope for your understanding:
>
> Before, there was a courier-maildrop as well as a (stand-alone) maildrop
> package. Meaning those two are built from the very same source, but

They should not be. maildrop is a separate source package. It's a tarball in  
of itself, that's built independently.

Now, the fact that this tarball contains code that's also found in another,  
larger, package, that's a different subject.

> Couldn't most of this configuration be moved to runtime, rather than
> compile time?

The Courier build of maildrop implements a Courier-specific option that's  
got ...a bit of juice to it, taking advantage of its temporary root  
permissions.

Although the relevant bits in question do all their due diligence, checking  
that the real uid/gid is the one that's baked into the source, and thusly is  
only available to Courier, etc., it's good practice to remove stuff that's  
not needed. Multiple layers of security. It's better to keep that code out  
of the non-Courier specific maildrop, altogether.

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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Markus Wanner
On 05/16/2017 05:10 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> They should not be. maildrop is a separate source package. It's a
> tarball in of itself, that's built independently.
>
> Now, the fact that this tarball contains code that's also found in
> another, larger, package, that's a different subject.

I don't quite see how that matters. It's the same set of source files,
which would need the same set of security fixes, for example. What does
the duplication of efforts buy us?

I'd rather state that duplication of code is never a good idea, but a
sign for bad modularization.

> The Courier build of maildrop implements a Courier-specific option
> that's got ...a bit of juice to it, taking advantage of its temporary
> root permissions.
>
> Although the relevant bits in question do all their due diligence,
> checking that the real uid/gid is the one that's baked into the source,
> and thusly is only available to Courier, etc., it's good practice to
> remove stuff that's not needed. Multiple layers of security. It's better
> to keep that code out of the non-Courier specific maildrop, altogether.

By that reasoning, Debian would have to ship about a dozen variants of
maildrop packages. That's clearly not going to happen.

While I generally agree that it's good practice to remove stuff that's
really not needed, the courier variant *is* needed (by some users,
including myself). Splitting sources and duplicating efforts only
reduces overall test coverage and availability of security fixes, so I
don't quite see this as an overall gain in security.

If nothing else, it would have saved us the current confusion and
trouble with maildrop being available in multiple incompatible variants,
which aren't clearly distinguishable by name.

I'll check if it's feasible to re-add the courier-maildrop package in
Debian stretch (i.e. the Courier specific variant), but I'd greatly
appreciate if you could reconsider this split.

Kind Regards

Markus Wanner



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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Sam Varshavchik
Markus Wanner writes:

> I don't quite see how that matters. It's the same set of source files,
> which would need the same set of security fixes, for example. What does
> the duplication of efforts buy us?
>
> I'd rather state that duplication of code is never a good idea, but a
> sign for bad modularization.

Nothing is duplicated. It's one source repo. Packaging is a completely  
different matter.

> By that reasoning, Debian would have to ship about a dozen variants of
> maildrop packages. That's clearly not going to happen.

Only one maildrop package is needed. And one courier package, that's it.

> While I generally agree that it's good practice to remove stuff that's
> really not needed, the courier variant *is* needed (by some users,
> including myself).

Certainly, and there's a single package that configures and installs  
everything: courier.

>                    Splitting sources and duplicating efforts only

Nothing is split. It's the same software, just packaged differently.

> I'll check if it's feasible to re-add the courier-maildrop package in
> Debian stretch (i.e. the Courier specific variant), but I'd greatly
> appreciate if you could reconsider this split.

Nothing is split. There are two separate packages, for two separate  
situations. One, a single courier package, that includes everything  
configured to work together. And the second package is the maildrop package,  
configured without any courier dependencies, to be plugged into other mail  
servers. That's it. It couldn't be any simpler.

Did you know that there's also a separate courier-imap package? It's just  
the IMAP server component, that can be set up independently, and glued  
together with other mail servers. There's also the sqwebmail package, a mail  
server-independent webmail server.

And, of course, the Courier package installs everything, configured to work  
with each other. Couldn't be any simpler.

And things have been this simpler for over 20 years now. That's how long  
things have worked this way, with no issues. People get the right package  
for them, compile it, and install it. That's it.


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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Szépe Viktor
Idézem/Quoting Sam Varshavchik <[hidden email]>:

> Markus Wanner writes:
>
>> I don't quite see how that matters. It's the same set of source files,
>> which would need the same set of security fixes, for example. What does
>> the duplication of efforts buy us?
>>
>> I'd rather state that duplication of code is never a good idea, but a
>> sign for bad modularization.
>
> Nothing is duplicated. It's one source repo. Packaging is a  
> completely different matter.
>
>> By that reasoning, Debian would have to ship about a dozen variants of
>> maildrop packages. That's clearly not going to happen.
>
> Only one maildrop package is needed. And one courier package, that's it.
>
>> While I generally agree that it's good practice to remove stuff that's
>> really not needed, the courier variant *is* needed (by some users,
>> including myself).
>
> Certainly, and there's a single package that configures and installs  
> everything: courier.
>
>>                   Splitting sources and duplicating efforts only
>
> Nothing is split. It's the same software, just packaged differently.
>
>> I'll check if it's feasible to re-add the courier-maildrop package in
>> Debian stretch (i.e. the Courier specific variant), but I'd greatly
>> appreciate if you could reconsider this split.
>
> Nothing is split. There are two separate packages, for two separate  
> situations. One, a single courier package, that includes everything  
> configured to work together. And the second package is the maildrop  
> package, configured without any courier dependencies, to be plugged  
> into other mail servers. That's it. It couldn't be any simpler.
>
> Did you know that there's also a separate courier-imap package? It's  
> just the IMAP server component, that can be set up independently,  
> and glued together with other mail servers. There's also the  
> sqwebmail package, a mail server-independent webmail server.
>
> And, of course, the Courier package installs everything, configured  
> to work with each other. Couldn't be any simpler.
>
> And things have been this simpler for over 20 years now. That's how  
> long things have worked this way, with no issues. People get the  
> right package for them, compile it, and install it. That's it.

Hello Sam!

I think the Debian maintainer has to bridge the gap of "compile it,  
and install it" and the strict Debian policies.

For example I've learned packaging basics because I would like to have  
only packages on my servers not individual files without a central  
system like apt+dpkg.

I hope we will find a nice way to package your software by the  
guidelines of the Debian policies.

All the best!


SZÉPE Viktor
https://github.com/szepeviktor/debian-server-tools/blob/master/CV.md
--
+36-20-4242498  [hidden email]  skype: szepe.viktor
Budapest, III. kerület





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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Alessandro Vesely
In reply to this post by Markus Wanner
On Tue 16/May/2017 19:06:55 +0200 Markus Wanner wrote:
>
> I'll check if it's feasible to re-add the courier-maildrop package in
> Debian stretch (i.e. the Courier specific variant)

I'd suggest to avoid that.  I use subjunctive because I install Courier from
tarballs rather than Debian packages, except for off-hand tests.  In the latter
case, I get confused by the bewildering amount of Courier packages available in
the Debian distro —there are 27 of them, correct?

My suggestion is to avoid disassembling the Courier tarball.  That is, have
maildrop included by default in courier-mta, and possibly merge it with
courier-base as well (why were they split, BTW?)  The complete package should
conflict with the standalone version of maildrop.

Jm2c
Ale
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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Markus Wanner
In reply to this post by Sam Varshavchik
Hi,

On 17.05.2017 02:44, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> Only one maildrop package is needed. And one courier package, that's it.

Unfortunately, there is not separate courier-mta source release. Only
the bundle. That's problematic for distributions per se.

That's not a Debian specific issue, but generally bad for any
distribution. A good read may be:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Why_not_bundle_dependencies

Or Debian's upstream guide, see the section "Pristine Upstream Source":
https://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamGuide#Pristine_Upstream_Source

> Did you know that there's also a separate courier-imap package?

There is a courier-imap package for Debian, built from the courier
sources. Are you saying this one is incompatible to the separate
courier-imap source release? I strongly hope it's not. (And I had the
very same hope for maildrop, but that was utterly wrong in a very
non-obvious way, despite proclaimed simplicity...)

> And things have been this simpler for over 20 years now. That's how long
> things have worked this way, with no issues. People get the right
> package for them, compile it, and install it. That's it.

Several issues were filed against the duplication in Debian packages for
the two different maildrop variants. And the two packages were often out
of sync.

Please note that there's nothing speaking against a bundle for users who
want to compile for themselves (in contrast to using distro packages)
and appreciate the bundling. However, for Debian, I'd greatly appreciate
separate source tarballs for each individual component.

And to live up to the simplicity you're advocating, I'd recommend
eliminating any difference between individual components and the bundle.
I'm not the first one to be caught by surprise, and I certainly won't be
the last one.

I'm looking forward to support Courier for Debian. However, I need a bit
of understanding and support from upstream. Thank you.

Kind Regards

Markus Wanner



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Re: Message delivered, but no message in INBOX

Markus Wanner
In reply to this post by Alessandro Vesely
Hi,

On 17.05.2017 09:48, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> I'd suggest to avoid that.

I'd love not having to reintroduce a second maildrop variant.

> I use subjunctive because I install Courier from
> tarballs rather than Debian packages, except for off-hand tests.  In the latter
> case, I get confused by the bewildering amount of Courier packages available in
> the Debian distro —there are 27 of them, correct?

Why does that confuse you? An MTA and an IMAP server are clearly
distinct things. Just install what you need.

I personally didn't ever think of installing "courier". I installed
their MTA, their IMAP or POP server. And - I have to admit - not ever
their Webmail. I didn't ever want nor need the entire bundle. But I
could (in theory), by simply installing all the parts.

> My suggestion is to avoid disassembling the Courier tarball.  That is, have
> maildrop included by default in courier-mta, and possibly merge it with
> courier-base as well (why were they split, BTW?)

Flexibility. And separation of concerns.

I like being able to install courier-imap, but not courier-pop, for
example. Or running just the courier-mta without either of the other
two. That's quite common for Debian, I'd say. Take the modules for
apache's httpd as another example of that practice. Or the fact that
Debian ships separate client and server packages for most databases.

Kind Regards

Markus Wanner



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